epitaphic
Aug 17, 12:54 PM
The interesting thing to note from the Anandtech review is that to saturate a 2 core setup, all you need is one program. To saturate a quad, you need to be doing a bit more at the same time. To saturate an octo, you need to be doing a hell of a lot of things at the same time.
Now I don't know bout you lot, but there's only so much I can do at the same time. Sure it helps to be able to run anything I like and still use FCP with no performance hit. So I think a quad is perfect for that. But when it comes to 8+ cores, your actual workflow won't improve in the slightest unless it doesn't involve you having to do anything (eg run 4 instances of handbrake). I'm sure everyone once in a while has some work that can just be delegated to the CPU and it does its thing, but for the most part, where your attention and brain is needed, an 8 core will sit at least 50% idle.
Considering Clovertowns will have a slower, twice saturated FSB and lower clock speeds, most people will be better off (financially and productively) with Woodcrests. I'm just hoping that when octos are announced, the quads will drop in price.
Now if they start to optimise apps to take full advantage of more than 2 cores, that's a whole different ballgame ;)
Now I don't know bout you lot, but there's only so much I can do at the same time. Sure it helps to be able to run anything I like and still use FCP with no performance hit. So I think a quad is perfect for that. But when it comes to 8+ cores, your actual workflow won't improve in the slightest unless it doesn't involve you having to do anything (eg run 4 instances of handbrake). I'm sure everyone once in a while has some work that can just be delegated to the CPU and it does its thing, but for the most part, where your attention and brain is needed, an 8 core will sit at least 50% idle.
Considering Clovertowns will have a slower, twice saturated FSB and lower clock speeds, most people will be better off (financially and productively) with Woodcrests. I'm just hoping that when octos are announced, the quads will drop in price.
Now if they start to optimise apps to take full advantage of more than 2 cores, that's a whole different ballgame ;)
H. Flower
Apr 12, 11:47 AM
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70355
Aug 7, 05:24 PM
Ahh, but that was a different situation. In that case, Steve said that, but was dependent on IBM to make it come true.
Did someone put a gun to Jobs' head and make him use IBM?
Did someone put a gun to Jobs' head and make him use IBM?
fs454
Apr 6, 04:32 AM
No, I really think that iMovie is a good example of video-editing software. Did Apple changed FCP's look and feel in the last few years? No! It is outdated, that you have to admit for sure. iMovie has a far more modern UI, which should be adopted by FCP somehow. I didn't mean FCP should lose all its Pro-features. FCP could also adopt the easy way of handling your footage: In iMovie I see what I shot and can quickly add clips to the project without setting in and out points manually. And what about the precision-editor? For one project I abandoned FCP just because it has no precision editor.
I think FCP could learn a lot from iMovie. And if the same man, who created iMovie, is also the chief of the Final Cut Studio Developer Team, it will happen!
precision editor? there are a million bajillion ways to "precision edit" in FCP that are easy and accurate. Just because there's no "one click" flashy UI to go with it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I think FCP could learn a lot from iMovie. And if the same man, who created iMovie, is also the chief of the Final Cut Studio Developer Team, it will happen!
precision editor? there are a million bajillion ways to "precision edit" in FCP that are easy and accurate. Just because there's no "one click" flashy UI to go with it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
dernhelm
Aug 7, 04:11 PM
Maybe not in a client type computer but it exists in Windows Server 2003 and it is called Volume Shadow Copy.
Of curse it doesn't look as nice !
You're the closest so far, except that it is by turns both not as sophisticated as a Snapshot, and in some sense more sophisticated. A snapshot allows you to "capture" the current state of a disk at a particular point in time - further new updates do not impact the snapshot. This assures a consistent backup as of a given point in time. This is not what Apple is doing here, as they are simply storing the old version of the file on the backup system.
However, in Time Machine, "snapshots" are not deliberate actions, they occur everytime something is changed. It would be tedious/near impossible to restore your entire disk back to a certain known good point using Time Machine - but that's a SysAdmin thing. It is almost simplicity itself to restore a given file or set of files back to what they were 30 minutes ago. And that is something that "everyman" needs a lot. If your choices are your current corrupt version, or the version as of the last snapshot, that is often a choice between bad and worse.
Of curse it doesn't look as nice !
You're the closest so far, except that it is by turns both not as sophisticated as a Snapshot, and in some sense more sophisticated. A snapshot allows you to "capture" the current state of a disk at a particular point in time - further new updates do not impact the snapshot. This assures a consistent backup as of a given point in time. This is not what Apple is doing here, as they are simply storing the old version of the file on the backup system.
However, in Time Machine, "snapshots" are not deliberate actions, they occur everytime something is changed. It would be tedious/near impossible to restore your entire disk back to a certain known good point using Time Machine - but that's a SysAdmin thing. It is almost simplicity itself to restore a given file or set of files back to what they were 30 minutes ago. And that is something that "everyman" needs a lot. If your choices are your current corrupt version, or the version as of the last snapshot, that is often a choice between bad and worse.
silversin
Apr 11, 03:20 PM
Key component supplier? Who?
The A5 chip already being delivered.
Qualcomm chips already being delivered.
Camera parts from Sony. (if true)
If they are staying with the same screen size, LG is already delivering those too.
If not, that's the only part which Apple needs more time testing? For gods sake it's only a bigger screen...
Total BS story IMO
The A5 chip already being delivered.
Qualcomm chips already being delivered.
Camera parts from Sony. (if true)
If they are staying with the same screen size, LG is already delivering those too.
If not, that's the only part which Apple needs more time testing? For gods sake it's only a bigger screen...
Total BS story IMO
gauriemma
Aug 26, 08:12 AM
No, because different versions of the ranges were initially posted only recently has it been clarified...get with the program and stop trying to be a smartass
Get with what program? I went to the support site on the day the recall was announced, checked to see if my serial number was in the range, it wasn't, and I went on with my life. Just to be safe, I even checked back a couple days later, and the ranges were still the same as the first time I checked.
I had to do the same thing wheh I was checking out our Dell laptops at the office. It's really not that difficult a concept. I think some people just like to have something to complain about.
Get with what program? I went to the support site on the day the recall was announced, checked to see if my serial number was in the range, it wasn't, and I went on with my life. Just to be safe, I even checked back a couple days later, and the ranges were still the same as the first time I checked.
I had to do the same thing wheh I was checking out our Dell laptops at the office. It's really not that difficult a concept. I think some people just like to have something to complain about.
dougny
Nov 28, 06:44 PM
(Did the music companies ask for money for every CD player or Tape Recorder sold? Nope)
Actually, they do. They also got paid on every blank tape sold when cassettes were big. I think it is crazy for everyone to think that the music industry is greedy when it getting squeezed out of all of their revenue streams. So, Apple makes hundreds of millions off of their back on the itunes site, and a billion off of iPod sales, and they cannot share in the wealth?
It doesn't cost the consumer any more, why wouldn't you want the people who actually make the music you are listening to get compensated?
This debate is stale. People want something for nothing.
Actually, they do. They also got paid on every blank tape sold when cassettes were big. I think it is crazy for everyone to think that the music industry is greedy when it getting squeezed out of all of their revenue streams. So, Apple makes hundreds of millions off of their back on the itunes site, and a billion off of iPod sales, and they cannot share in the wealth?
It doesn't cost the consumer any more, why wouldn't you want the people who actually make the music you are listening to get compensated?
This debate is stale. People want something for nothing.
generik
Sep 19, 01:17 AM
However, I am willing to pay more for Apples reliability, ease of use, and lack of numerous viruses. But, not too much more.
Apple's reliability? Care to elaborate more specifically? Good high quality well designed never dying logic boards that run at 40-ish degrees Celsius for one? :p
Apple's reliability? Care to elaborate more specifically? Good high quality well designed never dying logic boards that run at 40-ish degrees Celsius for one? :p
batitombo
Apr 25, 02:20 PM
I'm so over this ****
Silentwave
Aug 27, 06:58 PM
That's the old pricing mate :) 1.83 GHz Yonah/ Merom is $240.
Now. But how much have iMac prices changed since release? I don't think they have. They released the iMac and MBP lines around the same time Yonah was intro'ed, and the iMacs did not see any speed bumps or price changes that I know of. Therefore they should be able to implement similar pricing with Conroe @ 2.4GHz, just with a profit margin closer to the iMac release amounts.
Of course they could always go for the 2.13GHz version, which is less expensive, and still plenty faster than the existing 1.83 :)
Now. But how much have iMac prices changed since release? I don't think they have. They released the iMac and MBP lines around the same time Yonah was intro'ed, and the iMacs did not see any speed bumps or price changes that I know of. Therefore they should be able to implement similar pricing with Conroe @ 2.4GHz, just with a profit margin closer to the iMac release amounts.
Of course they could always go for the 2.13GHz version, which is less expensive, and still plenty faster than the existing 1.83 :)
joecool85
Jul 27, 09:41 AM
Yay! Chips that don't suck and are fast! (I hate P4s)
dethmaShine
Apr 19, 03:05 PM
Well you can see that with the Mac. About 3% worldwide marketshare but Apple makes tons of money with it.
And eveybody crys tears here when some 5 year old Windows games finally get ported to MacOS. You want that to happen with the iPhone and iOS compared to Android? Fine. But I'm sure 99% of iPhone buyers don't want that scenario.
Not trying to defend poor gaming on the macintosh, but android is the one getting year old titles now.
Just to make it more clear, marketshare is one small factor considered for game development. There's much more than that. For e.g. people paying for actual games, ease of code for a single graphic card [a big hassle for windows gaming].
Just read through?
And eveybody crys tears here when some 5 year old Windows games finally get ported to MacOS. You want that to happen with the iPhone and iOS compared to Android? Fine. But I'm sure 99% of iPhone buyers don't want that scenario.
Not trying to defend poor gaming on the macintosh, but android is the one getting year old titles now.
Just to make it more clear, marketshare is one small factor considered for game development. There's much more than that. For e.g. people paying for actual games, ease of code for a single graphic card [a big hassle for windows gaming].
Just read through?
Bill McEnaney
Feb 28, 11:56 AM
On Friday, though, the college issued a statement accusing him not only of being gay, which it called contrary to traditional Catholic doctrine, but also of misrepresenting before he was hired that he was a member of an independent branch of Catholicism.
He denied both accusations Saturday, saying he never hid his sexuality or his affiliation with the Old Catholic Apostolic Church of the Americas from school officials.
Does he feel same-sex attractions or doesn't he? The reporter says that the priest is "gay." The article tells me that the priest denied both accusations. If he denied both accusations, he denied that he was gay.
The reporter or the college goofed. Being "gay" isn't contrary to Catholic teachings. Living a "gay lifestyle" is contrary to them.
He denied both accusations Saturday, saying he never hid his sexuality or his affiliation with the Old Catholic Apostolic Church of the Americas from school officials.
Does he feel same-sex attractions or doesn't he? The reporter says that the priest is "gay." The article tells me that the priest denied both accusations. If he denied both accusations, he denied that he was gay.
The reporter or the college goofed. Being "gay" isn't contrary to Catholic teachings. Living a "gay lifestyle" is contrary to them.
ncook06
Sep 13, 09:50 AM
I'm just wondering if I can drop one of these into an iMac... Are they pin-compatible? Also sort of wondering about a heat issue.
generik
Sep 19, 01:15 AM
Haha, sounds like other people's disappointment amuses you. Feeding the fires of anticipation there... I can play along.
Any likelihood that we will see a laptop (NOT notebook) that can actually be used in one's lap without suffering from burns?!
Well it is not "other people's" disappointment, I know for a fact that if the nice HDD bay didn't make it into the next speedbump I'd be royally pissed. But yeah, somehow I have a really bad feeling that it is just going to be a chip swop.
Any likelihood that we will see a laptop (NOT notebook) that can actually be used in one's lap without suffering from burns?!
Well it is not "other people's" disappointment, I know for a fact that if the nice HDD bay didn't make it into the next speedbump I'd be royally pissed. But yeah, somehow I have a really bad feeling that it is just going to be a chip swop.
smiddlehurst
Mar 31, 03:15 PM
Emphasis on the important bit for those who didn't bother to actually read the article. If you want to wait a bit, you can get the code and do whatever you want. Well that's my reading of it anyway, but please, don't let get in the way of giving the new enemy number one a good kicking.
Except Google have made it very clear with Honeycomb that they're not willing to release the source code for the foreseeable future so 'a bit' could be a lot longer than you'd think. More to the point that does manufacturers very little good. If, f'instance, Google decide to only release a version of Android as open source when they release the next version any manufacturer wanting to use it is going to have to grab the open version, make whatever tweaks they want, get it on a device, get it built in bulk and launch it into the relevant sales channel(s). By the time they do that Google is likely to have released another version of Android and they'll be hopelessly out of date.
Make no mistake about this, Google tightening up on the Android T&C's like this makes it almost impossible for anyone outside of Google's control to launch a device that really competes with the manufacturers who are on the inside track, at least from an OS point of view.
Except Google have made it very clear with Honeycomb that they're not willing to release the source code for the foreseeable future so 'a bit' could be a lot longer than you'd think. More to the point that does manufacturers very little good. If, f'instance, Google decide to only release a version of Android as open source when they release the next version any manufacturer wanting to use it is going to have to grab the open version, make whatever tweaks they want, get it on a device, get it built in bulk and launch it into the relevant sales channel(s). By the time they do that Google is likely to have released another version of Android and they'll be hopelessly out of date.
Make no mistake about this, Google tightening up on the Android T&C's like this makes it almost impossible for anyone outside of Google's control to launch a device that really competes with the manufacturers who are on the inside track, at least from an OS point of view.
amin
Aug 19, 09:42 AM
You make good points. I guess we'll learn more as more information becomes available.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
samcraig
Apr 27, 08:36 AM
I wonder how long this "bug" has existed? You know...the bug that's recording all sorts of other information into the database.
2 years? 4 years?
If it's been longer than a few months, no one will ever believe a)it is a bug b)a bug this severe for privacy concerns, c)that it was never mentioned before as a bug, and d)until the lawsuit has never been on the roadmap to be fixed.
The issue has been known for over a year.
The bad press Apple has been getting led to this "discovery"
Much like the bad press led Apple to "discover" that their Antenna had an issue while pointing the finger at all phones to say that all phones have an issue.
So again - whether or not the lawsuit is justified - at the very least, when matters like this are brought to attention, results can be achieved. So for those criticizing people speaking up when they see something wrong, try and remember that it's the questioning that is important to achieve clarity and transparency. You don't have to agree with lawsuits, etc. But it's always important to engage in discussion.
2 years? 4 years?
If it's been longer than a few months, no one will ever believe a)it is a bug b)a bug this severe for privacy concerns, c)that it was never mentioned before as a bug, and d)until the lawsuit has never been on the roadmap to be fixed.
The issue has been known for over a year.
The bad press Apple has been getting led to this "discovery"
Much like the bad press led Apple to "discover" that their Antenna had an issue while pointing the finger at all phones to say that all phones have an issue.
So again - whether or not the lawsuit is justified - at the very least, when matters like this are brought to attention, results can be achieved. So for those criticizing people speaking up when they see something wrong, try and remember that it's the questioning that is important to achieve clarity and transparency. You don't have to agree with lawsuits, etc. But it's always important to engage in discussion.
gugy
Aug 11, 11:06 AM
Paris would be an excellent opportunity to introduce the "iPhone".
Probably, But I think Christmass season would be better for sales. maybe they will launch end of October to take advantage of that.
I just hope it's true, I am so tired of my Verizon service and their crap phones.
Probably, But I think Christmass season would be better for sales. maybe they will launch end of October to take advantage of that.
I just hope it's true, I am so tired of my Verizon service and their crap phones.
filmguy
Aug 7, 07:26 AM
Hey Guys.
When do you think they'll update their website with the new "Mac Pro's"?
Regards,
George
When do you think they'll update their website with the new "Mac Pro's"?
Regards,
George
oldwatery
Apr 19, 02:09 PM
What annoys me even more is that Apple always seems to make these claims that they made such and such first, and that Windows is copying Mac OS.. What annoys me is if you know a bit of the history you'll find that Apple copied Xerox interface, with permission of course, but it's not like they came up with it first..
Now they are making another claim that Samsung is copying..
x2
Everything is just a development of something else.
There is no absolute originality.
This is a stupid waste of time and effort.
But I guess when you get all big and high and mighty then why not throw some of the spare cash at a silly law suit if for no other reason than getting more publicity.
Now they are making another claim that Samsung is copying..
x2
Everything is just a development of something else.
There is no absolute originality.
This is a stupid waste of time and effort.
But I guess when you get all big and high and mighty then why not throw some of the spare cash at a silly law suit if for no other reason than getting more publicity.
MattSepeta
Apr 27, 12:16 PM
These people never stop do they? I don't remember anyone asking bush or any other president about their educational records, plus the one time they shed light on bush's military record it just seemed to disappear into thin air.
At least new the president's chances of getting re-elected in 2012 just skyrocketed.
A few things.... Hilary did get the ball rolling before Obama was nominated...
And all presidents are plagued by these wacky conspiracy theories... GWB had his military service issues and the truther movement, WJC had "Clinton Bodycount" (arguably more insane and dark than the birther thing), Kennedy had plenty, etc...
What I dont understand is the "outrage" we are seeing over this. People claim Obama is not a citizen. Ok, well its crazy sounding, but its not dark or destructive. How about the truther movement? That is pure insidiousness.
For
At least new the president's chances of getting re-elected in 2012 just skyrocketed.
A few things.... Hilary did get the ball rolling before Obama was nominated...
And all presidents are plagued by these wacky conspiracy theories... GWB had his military service issues and the truther movement, WJC had "Clinton Bodycount" (arguably more insane and dark than the birther thing), Kennedy had plenty, etc...
What I dont understand is the "outrage" we are seeing over this. People claim Obama is not a citizen. Ok, well its crazy sounding, but its not dark or destructive. How about the truther movement? That is pure insidiousness.
For
eb6
Sep 19, 09:53 AM
Originally Posted by DocAlge
I am new to this (and still waiting to buy my first Mac). BUT why all this talk about speed and not about screen size.
I will buy a new Mac as soon as the new models arrive, but I could probably do with a MacBook - but I just think 13" is to small (my eyes are getting old). Does anyone think a 15" MacBook will be out anytime soon - or do I just have to pay the extra price for the MacBook Pro
I would go with a 13". I was really surprised how big it was when I saw it the first time.
I am new to this (and still waiting to buy my first Mac). BUT why all this talk about speed and not about screen size.
I will buy a new Mac as soon as the new models arrive, but I could probably do with a MacBook - but I just think 13" is to small (my eyes are getting old). Does anyone think a 15" MacBook will be out anytime soon - or do I just have to pay the extra price for the MacBook Pro
I would go with a 13". I was really surprised how big it was when I saw it the first time.
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