relimw
Sep 12, 11:15 AM
Very cool. Now to find apps (os10.5 direct blind support?) that can make use of all those cores. :cool:
gnasher729
Jul 20, 01:21 PM
Is having more cores more energy efficient than having one big fat ass 24Ghz processor? Maybe thats a factor in the increasing core count.
Absolutely.
The power consumption of a chip is proportional to the clock speed, multiplied by the voltage squared. So at the same voltage, a hypothetical 24 GHz chip would use eight times as much power as a single 3 GHz chip, and the same as eight 3 GHz chips.
However, with any given technology, you need higher voltage to achieve the higher clock speed. So with the same technology, that 24 GHz chip would need much much higher voltage than the 3 GHz chips and accordingly it would take much more energy than eight 3 GHz chips.
As an example, some iPods have two ARM chips running at half the clock speed and lower power instead of a single ARM chip running at higher speed, in order to safe power.
Absolutely.
The power consumption of a chip is proportional to the clock speed, multiplied by the voltage squared. So at the same voltage, a hypothetical 24 GHz chip would use eight times as much power as a single 3 GHz chip, and the same as eight 3 GHz chips.
However, with any given technology, you need higher voltage to achieve the higher clock speed. So with the same technology, that 24 GHz chip would need much much higher voltage than the 3 GHz chips and accordingly it would take much more energy than eight 3 GHz chips.
As an example, some iPods have two ARM chips running at half the clock speed and lower power instead of a single ARM chip running at higher speed, in order to safe power.
addicted44
Mar 26, 01:15 AM
About the only thing that I find disappointing about this release is the lack of a new filesystem.
I am disappointed about this too. But I am not surprised. Apple's next filesystem was going to be ZFS. But Sun being purchased by Oracle has probably killed any chance of that happening.
The newer Linux FS'es are just not stable enough at the point (or don't do things Apple has somehow managed to bake into HFS+, like the snapshots, and things like directory Hard Links, etc). I don't see Apple moving to any version of ReiserFS or ext#, so I think we are stuck with HFS+ and extensions/improvements of it, until the ZFS situation gets clearer.
I am disappointed about this too. But I am not surprised. Apple's next filesystem was going to be ZFS. But Sun being purchased by Oracle has probably killed any chance of that happening.
The newer Linux FS'es are just not stable enough at the point (or don't do things Apple has somehow managed to bake into HFS+, like the snapshots, and things like directory Hard Links, etc). I don't see Apple moving to any version of ReiserFS or ext#, so I think we are stuck with HFS+ and extensions/improvements of it, until the ZFS situation gets clearer.
Lollypop
Jul 20, 12:47 PM
As fast as possible! Don't worry I do agree that e mail and browsing has very little to do with the processor speed, still you did ask the question! Now if only I could get a fibre link to my house without it costing a few hundred thousand Pounds a year hmm :rolleyes:
Sort of proves the point i was trying to make, at some point mose users wil rather get a beter IO subsystem than more processing power. When last i checked most operating systems dont scale very well beyond 32 processors, I asume that they have gotten the OS scale beyond that, but wont it at some point become impossible to improve to OS to scale better on more processors?
Multitasking has be mentioned as a situation where multiple processors will be an advantage, but at the same time be real, to what level do you multitast with processor intense apps?
Most of the time I have itunes running in the background, web browser open, word, entourage, few finder windows... basics really, but even with so few things open I cant concentrate on the report im writing or the thread im reading because of everything else happening and drawing my attention. Wont the same be true if not more so for a photoshop user? Or a FCP user? So asuming that you reduce the clutter wont the level of multitasking be reduced then?
Sort of proves the point i was trying to make, at some point mose users wil rather get a beter IO subsystem than more processing power. When last i checked most operating systems dont scale very well beyond 32 processors, I asume that they have gotten the OS scale beyond that, but wont it at some point become impossible to improve to OS to scale better on more processors?
Multitasking has be mentioned as a situation where multiple processors will be an advantage, but at the same time be real, to what level do you multitast with processor intense apps?
Most of the time I have itunes running in the background, web browser open, word, entourage, few finder windows... basics really, but even with so few things open I cant concentrate on the report im writing or the thread im reading because of everything else happening and drawing my attention. Wont the same be true if not more so for a photoshop user? Or a FCP user? So asuming that you reduce the clutter wont the level of multitasking be reduced then?
ergle2
Sep 14, 08:09 PM
Not sure about beyond 8 which can be paired into a 16 core Mac. Perhaps. Too far out to tell although it is casually mentioned in the roadmap.
New micro-arch -- Nehalem is due 2008.
New micro-arch -- Nehalem is due 2008.
Popeye206
Apr 11, 02:23 PM
Are you serious? The Moto Droid (i.e.: the original one) is slower than molasses. You cannot be talking about the original Verizon Droid. That phone under-delivered out the gate. My friend from work whose entire family uses Verizon bought a Motorola Droid and she thought she was getting the equivalent of an iPhone and hated it ever since. She was jumping up and down when Verizon got the iPhone.
<<<Clip>>>
The moral of that story is that Apple needs a cheaper entry point for an iOS smartphone if they want to command market share and especially to put their phones in the hands of more teenagers.
I don't think that's the market Apple wants. They already have the #1 selling smart phone. They make more profit than all competitors combined off of the iPhone. The Cell phone market is very fluid and Apple knows it just has to keep producing the coolest and more desired phone and they will always have a decent share of the market and make tons of money.
in the mean time, Moto, Samsung, HTC, LG and others all battle it out with the same OS and dropping prices to get market share. A race to the bottom strategy that I'm not sure will last forever.
All Apple needs to do is keep the "coolness" coming. Reward us with nice iOS updates and keep us happy with the best support in the market.
<<<Clip>>>
The moral of that story is that Apple needs a cheaper entry point for an iOS smartphone if they want to command market share and especially to put their phones in the hands of more teenagers.
I don't think that's the market Apple wants. They already have the #1 selling smart phone. They make more profit than all competitors combined off of the iPhone. The Cell phone market is very fluid and Apple knows it just has to keep producing the coolest and more desired phone and they will always have a decent share of the market and make tons of money.
in the mean time, Moto, Samsung, HTC, LG and others all battle it out with the same OS and dropping prices to get market share. A race to the bottom strategy that I'm not sure will last forever.
All Apple needs to do is keep the "coolness" coming. Reward us with nice iOS updates and keep us happy with the best support in the market.
NebulaClash
Apr 25, 01:39 PM
Ah, the perfect storm! A (probable) bug that does not clip the data the way Google does it, a story that gets reported months ago and then it forgotten, a new story that appears and blows it way out of proportion, news articles that imply Apple is SPYING ON YOU (even though Apple does not get this information), and lots of ignorance spewed all over the Web.
Natually this leads to stupid lawsuits. This is America, dammit!
*sigh* This is turning into another Antennagate, misinformation and all. Steve is going to have to do more than that email to get people to shut up about what is a very small issue that is being exploded into a very large misinformation campaign.
Natually this leads to stupid lawsuits. This is America, dammit!
*sigh* This is turning into another Antennagate, misinformation and all. Steve is going to have to do more than that email to get people to shut up about what is a very small issue that is being exploded into a very large misinformation campaign.
Xeem
Aug 15, 12:05 PM
Still waiting for game benchmarks...
Ditto. Sometimes a system's true colors don't show until you've benchmarked modern games on it.
Ditto. Sometimes a system's true colors don't show until you've benchmarked modern games on it.
macman312
Apr 11, 06:57 PM
My 3Gs contract ends in June and Apple will be pushing it's luck for me to go half a year without me being tempted to jump platforms instead of waiting for the iPhone 5.
Hopefully apple will announce the iphone 5 in june but say something like "due to the disasters in japan they won't be available till september" and I agree with you that there is a new desire hd 2 coming out tomorrow/today(tuesday).
I too end my contract in june and hope that as long as they announce it that my teleco company will have a list of people who want to wait for a few months for the iphone5 . These rumours may be incorrect also.
Hopefully apple will announce the iphone 5 in june but say something like "due to the disasters in japan they won't be available till september" and I agree with you that there is a new desire hd 2 coming out tomorrow/today(tuesday).
I too end my contract in june and hope that as long as they announce it that my teleco company will have a list of people who want to wait for a few months for the iphone5 . These rumours may be incorrect also.
DakotaGuy
Aug 11, 02:39 PM
It is more like 81% of the world market.
MS Windows has about 95% of the world market...doesn't mean the technology is better.:)
MS Windows has about 95% of the world market...doesn't mean the technology is better.:)
NoSmokingBandit
Dec 3, 09:54 PM
same here .. on tarmac level there always seems to be 1 car in the bunch who will cause me troubles with being really fast
I ended up bumping my focus's hp to 241 with some kind of mod (i cant remember what i did, i tested everything to see what would get me closest to 245, the limit), reduced the body weight, and put on the semi-racing flywheel. The Tarmac Rally was easy enough after that.
**spoiler alert**
You get a voucher for a "base rally car" for winning. Idk if the prize is always the same for everyone, but i got an 05 Mini. I dont need or want an 05 Mini. I sold it and added it to my Lambo fund.
**end spoiler**
I started the Italian Tour thing earlier today. Half of it is fun but half is just annoying. Theres a race with a murcielago at night, which is awesome but the damn car spins out if you dont hold the wheel perfectly straight while you break or accelerate, making it very difficult to keep any reasonable speed. The Alfa Romeo in the first leg of the tour is almost as bad. But the Ferrari race at Monza? Easy as pie, i got gold on my first attempt without much fight from the AI.
If anyone wants to add me, my PSN name is the same as my MR name: NoSmokingBandit
Perhaps we could trade cars or something. I have an '08 Ferrari California (won from the Pro series Ferrari race) i have no use for, but i really need a Lambo (any will do, needed for the Pro series Lambo race).
I ended up bumping my focus's hp to 241 with some kind of mod (i cant remember what i did, i tested everything to see what would get me closest to 245, the limit), reduced the body weight, and put on the semi-racing flywheel. The Tarmac Rally was easy enough after that.
**spoiler alert**
You get a voucher for a "base rally car" for winning. Idk if the prize is always the same for everyone, but i got an 05 Mini. I dont need or want an 05 Mini. I sold it and added it to my Lambo fund.
**end spoiler**
I started the Italian Tour thing earlier today. Half of it is fun but half is just annoying. Theres a race with a murcielago at night, which is awesome but the damn car spins out if you dont hold the wheel perfectly straight while you break or accelerate, making it very difficult to keep any reasonable speed. The Alfa Romeo in the first leg of the tour is almost as bad. But the Ferrari race at Monza? Easy as pie, i got gold on my first attempt without much fight from the AI.
If anyone wants to add me, my PSN name is the same as my MR name: NoSmokingBandit
Perhaps we could trade cars or something. I have an '08 Ferrari California (won from the Pro series Ferrari race) i have no use for, but i really need a Lambo (any will do, needed for the Pro series Lambo race).
blvdeast
Aug 7, 06:22 PM
hey, i got it.
lets say you have a folder on the dock, and you open it, it opens in the dok itself. and you can scroll left and right to pass through like iphoto speed. and you can have more then one dock and they would like stack on top/side of each other to have several "folder" open, and you do a shortcut and your dock goes normal. i know my idea sounds like a mess but i'm sure apple can polish it up
Cause you can only have so many folder icons in a folder window so i'm sure that it would be about the same.
As for the new features, I love them and can't wait to use it, but it is easy to see where Apple gets its inspiration from
Time Machine- Just an easy and fancy backup program
iChat Share Screen- Its like a VNC connection. I do it all the time between my linux desktop and ibook all the time. If you can have both screens at the same time and drag files in between to download would be awesome
Tabbed Chat Windows- Open source has been all over this for a while
Spaces- Virtual Desktops. Probably inspired by linux, and perfected
I mean its great updates and improvements, but I'm still waiting for innovation. Like expose. I want a feature to improve the use of my computer, not just awesome features
lets say you have a folder on the dock, and you open it, it opens in the dok itself. and you can scroll left and right to pass through like iphoto speed. and you can have more then one dock and they would like stack on top/side of each other to have several "folder" open, and you do a shortcut and your dock goes normal. i know my idea sounds like a mess but i'm sure apple can polish it up
Cause you can only have so many folder icons in a folder window so i'm sure that it would be about the same.
As for the new features, I love them and can't wait to use it, but it is easy to see where Apple gets its inspiration from
Time Machine- Just an easy and fancy backup program
iChat Share Screen- Its like a VNC connection. I do it all the time between my linux desktop and ibook all the time. If you can have both screens at the same time and drag files in between to download would be awesome
Tabbed Chat Windows- Open source has been all over this for a while
Spaces- Virtual Desktops. Probably inspired by linux, and perfected
I mean its great updates and improvements, but I'm still waiting for innovation. Like expose. I want a feature to improve the use of my computer, not just awesome features
Mammoth
Jul 15, 10:14 AM
Looking at PC product offerings by ATI (http://www.ati.com/products/workstation/fireglmatrix.html), you can see that they also offer video cards with two dual-link DVI ports on a single card. You can even get this on a Radeon X1900 series card (http://www.ati.com/products/radeonx1900/radeonx1900xtx/specs.html).
I believe you are wrong (http://www.ati.com/designpartners/media/images/RX1900_Board_lg.jpg).
(Believe)
I believe you are wrong (http://www.ati.com/designpartners/media/images/RX1900_Board_lg.jpg).
(Believe)
bigwig
Nov 28, 07:37 PM
1) Who says the people who actually make the music would get any of this money in the first place?
My bet is that artist's contracts only pay out on music sales, not hardware royalties. Thus the cdrom tax and ipod royalties are profits they don't have to share with artists despite their pious rhetoric about how they need these revenues because piracy hurts recording artists.
My bet is that artist's contracts only pay out on music sales, not hardware royalties. Thus the cdrom tax and ipod royalties are profits they don't have to share with artists despite their pious rhetoric about how they need these revenues because piracy hurts recording artists.
opinioncircle
Mar 20, 07:56 AM
Until we have publicly funded campaigns, there will be no change. As long as it costs millions to get elected, business will continue to set policy, maintain the farce of two different parties and basically run the country, a situation I think the OP of this thread is in favour of.
Agreed. The 2012 race seems to be one for the books as far as campaign contributions are concerned.
This should all go public.
Agreed. The 2012 race seems to be one for the books as far as campaign contributions are concerned.
This should all go public.
gnomeisland
Apr 27, 08:18 AM
I wish they would leave it on and let me use it. I consider it a feature. It would help me track hours at job sites automatically for billing. I thought of writing an app just for that.
That's an interesting idea.
I actually like Apple's response. I do think that being able to turn OFF the feature was an oversight on their part but I do wish there was a way to leave it on. I'd actually welcome a way to import that database into Aperture and use it geotag my photos. Yes, there are apps to do that but I have an iPhone 3G and so backgrounding those apps isn't really possible.
That's an interesting idea.
I actually like Apple's response. I do think that being able to turn OFF the feature was an oversight on their part but I do wish there was a way to leave it on. I'd actually welcome a way to import that database into Aperture and use it geotag my photos. Yes, there are apps to do that but I have an iPhone 3G and so backgrounding those apps isn't really possible.
ergle2
Sep 14, 08:42 PM
I think you're a bit arse-about-face there. Someone else has already pointed out the differences between XP and Windows 2003 aren't trivial, so I won't go into that. However, if you're sufficient vintage, you should remember the "outrage" when someone demonstrated that you could turn NT 4 Workstation into NT 4 Server (including the boot and login screens) just by changing a few Registry settings (although the part that usually doesn't get said is that those Registry settings then triggered a whole range of different tuning settings for the scheduler, memory management, etc). NT 3.5 & 3.51 were the same, and IIRC, NT 3.1 didn't even have a "Server" version.
The comments about separate platforms in the NT era I took to refer to NT3.x/4 vs Win9x.
Quite a few bits of XP Pro functionality can be enabled in XP home with some minor hex editing, too.
And of course, NT started as a reimplementation of VMS for a failed Intel RISC CPU...
The comments about separate platforms in the NT era I took to refer to NT3.x/4 vs Win9x.
Quite a few bits of XP Pro functionality can be enabled in XP home with some minor hex editing, too.
And of course, NT started as a reimplementation of VMS for a failed Intel RISC CPU...
netdog
Aug 11, 10:22 AM
What OS will the iPhone be running?
OS Xm
OS Xm
daneoni
Aug 25, 04:03 PM
Kind of a rude reply to someone who is just posting their experience with Apple.
Without criticism there would never be a reason to improve anything.
Agreed, thats why i asked what that meant. I mean its a distasteful reply and im sure if iMike were in his shoes he'd be writing the same type of post....then again he might suck it up...because its almighty Apple.
Without criticism there would never be a reason to improve anything.
Agreed, thats why i asked what that meant. I mean its a distasteful reply and im sure if iMike were in his shoes he'd be writing the same type of post....then again he might suck it up...because its almighty Apple.
leekohler
Apr 27, 09:31 AM
No matter what Obama does, these people are not going to be satisfied. They're absolutely insane. Trump should be ashamed of himself. I was once proud of the Trump Tower here in Chicago. Now I'd like to see it burned to the ground.
boncellis
Jul 20, 12:17 PM
I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but Kentsfield will not be appearing in any of the Pro machines for some time.
Apple will be using them exclusively in the Xserves, at for the most part of 2007. This will finally give Apple another way to distinguish their server line from their pro line.
That makes a lot of sense, actually. I hadn't thought of it, but with a server class processor ostensibly powering the Mac Pro, it begs the question of what the servers will get as an upgrade.
The simple answer--next generation server chips, duh!
Apple will be using them exclusively in the Xserves, at for the most part of 2007. This will finally give Apple another way to distinguish their server line from their pro line.
That makes a lot of sense, actually. I hadn't thought of it, but with a server class processor ostensibly powering the Mac Pro, it begs the question of what the servers will get as an upgrade.
The simple answer--next generation server chips, duh!
coolcom
Mar 26, 02:17 PM
Thank you!
I wanted to write every point you just made .. i'm just glad other people are capable of rational thought. It seems as though these people expect that if they don't like something then no one will, as though their uses are the most important and anyone else who disagree's doesn't use their computer for 'real work'.
Every one of the new features in Lion i am really excited about, the integration of server allows me to use my old Mac as a media server, Versions is a killer feature, as a developer i've been using local repo's forever. FDE is epic, anyone who cares about data security and used FileVault understands how much of a pain it is. I use my notebook and plug it into a large screen when i'm at a desk, i'd like fullscreen apps when i'm in notebook mode thanks. I could go on and on ...
I'm running Lion, and personally I hate Mission Control. There is no way to turn it off (there really should be). It's such a pain trying to select the other windows when they are grouped together. Horrendous implementation.
Full screen apps...If I wanted to run and see only one app at a time....I'd use my iPad!! Fullscreen apps are just gimmicky.
Resume...crappy, especially if you're not on a $$$$ SSD. It loads every program that you were using before reboot, good idea, but it just takes forever to use my computer after rebooting since it's loading 10+ apps!
I wanted to write every point you just made .. i'm just glad other people are capable of rational thought. It seems as though these people expect that if they don't like something then no one will, as though their uses are the most important and anyone else who disagree's doesn't use their computer for 'real work'.
Every one of the new features in Lion i am really excited about, the integration of server allows me to use my old Mac as a media server, Versions is a killer feature, as a developer i've been using local repo's forever. FDE is epic, anyone who cares about data security and used FileVault understands how much of a pain it is. I use my notebook and plug it into a large screen when i'm at a desk, i'd like fullscreen apps when i'm in notebook mode thanks. I could go on and on ...
I'm running Lion, and personally I hate Mission Control. There is no way to turn it off (there really should be). It's such a pain trying to select the other windows when they are grouped together. Horrendous implementation.
Full screen apps...If I wanted to run and see only one app at a time....I'd use my iPad!! Fullscreen apps are just gimmicky.
Resume...crappy, especially if you're not on a $$$$ SSD. It loads every program that you were using before reboot, good idea, but it just takes forever to use my computer after rebooting since it's loading 10+ apps!
jonharris200
Nov 28, 06:33 PM
They'd be lucky.
Glen Quagmire
Aug 23, 03:32 PM
This will likely suck, because the interconnect Intel is using is just too damn slow. Putting four cores in the same package will just make the situation worse, because a lot of applications are significantly limited by memory performance.
The Woodcrest processors have been put through their paces pretty well on the supercomputing lists, and their Achille's heal is the memory subsystem. Current generation AMD Opterons still clearly outscale Woodcrest in real-world memory bandwidth with only two cores. Unless Intel pulls a rabbit out of their hat with their memory architecture issues when the quad core is released, AMDs quad core is going to embarrass them because of the memory bottleneck. And AMD is already starting to work on upgrading their already markedly superior memory architecture.
In two years' time, Intel will release Nehalem its next micro-architecture - to replace Merom/Conroe/Woodcrest. It is supposed to ditch the FSB in favour of Intel's own interconnect, named CSI. Two years after Nehalem will come another micro-architecture.
In some respects, I'm quite happy to have ordered a Woodcrest Mac Pro, especially if the slow FSB does slow things down when Woodcrest's successor is released. If the Mac Pro can last me three or four years, I'll be in time for the post-Nehalem generation, which should be fairly spectacular.
The Woodcrest processors have been put through their paces pretty well on the supercomputing lists, and their Achille's heal is the memory subsystem. Current generation AMD Opterons still clearly outscale Woodcrest in real-world memory bandwidth with only two cores. Unless Intel pulls a rabbit out of their hat with their memory architecture issues when the quad core is released, AMDs quad core is going to embarrass them because of the memory bottleneck. And AMD is already starting to work on upgrading their already markedly superior memory architecture.
In two years' time, Intel will release Nehalem its next micro-architecture - to replace Merom/Conroe/Woodcrest. It is supposed to ditch the FSB in favour of Intel's own interconnect, named CSI. Two years after Nehalem will come another micro-architecture.
In some respects, I'm quite happy to have ordered a Woodcrest Mac Pro, especially if the slow FSB does slow things down when Woodcrest's successor is released. If the Mac Pro can last me three or four years, I'll be in time for the post-Nehalem generation, which should be fairly spectacular.
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